A.A. members “rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence”

According to the Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book (the AA “bible”), “…there was nothing left but for us to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at our feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed.” (pg. 25, Bold mine)

What is this “simple kit of spiritual tools” the Big Book refers to? In AA, the member gets to be the potter, and work the wheel, and the clay of the higher power is shaped into whatever form the person desires.

One’s “god” (or “goddess”) could be a spirit, a doorknob, the “christ” of The Shack or the New Age, Uncle Ernie, or Mohammed, or anything else.

In AA, there is seemingly no need for Christ. The AA Big Book teaches, “The central fact of our lives today is the absolute certainty that our Creator has entered our hearts and our lives in a way that is miraculous.” (pg.25)

But the thing that directs these lost people is not the Creator (which the Big Book also claims is already in people), because the Lord does not dwell in those who do not know Christ.

However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of Christ dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. (Romans 8:9)

Should we be worried for the AA people? Yes, we should. While millions have been pointed away from the Savior, the AA theology has also watered down the Body of Christ.

The AA Big Book teaches, “Much to our relief, we discovered we did not need to consider another’s conception of God. Our own conception, however inadequate, was sufficient to make the approach and to effect a contact with Him. As soon as we admitted the possible existence of a Creative Intelligence, a Spirit of the Universe underlying the totality of things, we began to be possessed of a new sense of power and direction, provided we took other simple steps.” (pg. 46, Bold mine)

Let us end with Truth from Jesus Christ and one final anti-bibical passage from the AA Big Book.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” (John 14:6)

In direct conflict with Christ’s own Word, the Big Book tells alcoholics, “We found God does not make too hard terms with those who seek Him. To us, the Realm of the Spirit is broad, roomy, all inclusive; never exclusive or forbidding to those who earnestly seek. It is open, we believe, to all men. When, therefore, we speak to you of God, we mean your own conception of God.” (pg. 46-47)

Why does this not matter? Why are so many Christians serving two masters? It is you who have been evangelized–into the AA theology. You are silent about Christ, calling Him “higher power” as if He were simply another tin god in the meeting room.

We have all heard the AA insults about “religion,” meaning only Christianity, of course, and we all know the claim that churches can’t help alcoholics. Well, try being a member of the Body of Christ…serve in your church…and see what the Lord will do.

But please, quit defending this thing that Christ Himself warns against, all right?

Related article:  Seances, spirits, and 12 steps

Published in: on November 20, 2010 at 4:00 pm  Comments (59)  
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  1. Hi Matt,
    I praise the Lord that you are sober, and also that you see the 12 Step religion’s dangerous spirituality. Matt, I went to a Catholic high school, and know the Catholic people well, which is to say, they are your basic American people. I worry for their salvation at least as much as I do for the AA people. Catholic understanding of salvation is not biblical, and I truly am not trying to aggravate or insult you.

    For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works so that no one may boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)

    The Catholic religion demands far more than this, as you know.

    Here is the website of an ex-Catholic, a man who cares very much for the Catholic people. Can you check out this site, peruse if you feel like it, and tell me what you think, even if it is just to tell me I am out of my mind? God bless you, my sober friend. http://www.proclaimingthegospel.org/site/cpage.asp?sec_id=180014816&cpage_id=180064904

  2. Thank for writing this. God is mentioned in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous 294 times. If I mention that God, Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit and the many saints who have gone before me have allowed me to stay sober and not die from alcoholism i am considered closed minded, looked down upon and AA basher. As a Catholic the only reason I do stay in AA today is because the church has reviewed the program and does allow it. It is on the edge of a cult type group however the second paragraph on page 87 does tell me differently. By the way when a a disconnected itself from the Oxford group it became Up with People. Which is classified as a cult and has ruined thousands of lives.

  3. Warnings can’t always be gentle.

  4. You really must be under the influence of something because your bashing comments about AA are unfounded and against all Christian tenants
    We in AA are not affiliated with any religion ,outside institutions or politics
    It is one of our primary dictates in our traditions and preamble
    Yes ,one hears all sort of bashing of everything imaginable on this earth but to make such unkind stupid statements in the name of Christ our Lord is shameful and sad !
    I have seen hundreds of recovering alcoholic come back to their Christian upbringing and are grateful for it every single day!!
    Just because they choose not to talk about it in a meeting does not justify your ugly public comments
    I shall pray for you!!!

  5. Hi Celenea,
    Paul never said that. Maybe you are just winging it a little?

    Christ did say, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through me.” (John 14:6)

    The Bible is from God, through the men who were selected to write it. The apostles and letters are not even a little off…they are just as He intended.

    You know, it is not about rigidity. It is about love. Deception must be exposed, and people must be warned.

  6. Actually, in the Bible, I think in Romans Paul talks about some hearts are pure and good with out knowing Christ and they are saved. We must remember… Only Jesus was perfect. So even the apostles and letters may be a little off. Never be too rigid or scared. Always come from a place of love my friend. Also re read the New Testament very very carefully and tell me when you find the passage….

  7. Who is your God, and why?

  8. AA lead me to God

  9. Amen.

  10. I am a Christian who made it out with all of my sensibilities. Thank You, Jesus, for the protection You provided me.

  11. Hi Marci,
    I have been freed from alcohol addiction and heroin addiction through the love and power of Jesus Christ. I was one of the drunks you see staggering in the streets, sleeping in alleys etc. Drunkenness in any form is a sin.

    I have also been to hundreds of AA meetings.

    You asked: Does Christ tell you to question everyone’s spirituality?

    He tells me (and you), Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; (Ephesians 5:11) He also tells me (and you) to come out and be separate. (2 Corinthians 6:14)

    You wrote: The bible also commands that we do not critize or judge our brothers and sisters for the way they worship The Lord, I love Jesus and I’m an alcoholic, it’s my job to be strong in my faith and not to turn others away by judging or condemning them, they will observe my actions and obedience, the rest is Gods job.

    Actually, Marci, we are not to judge based on our opinion, but we are to judge on the Word of God. If someone is [saved] a member of the Body of Christ, as say you are, then your fellow Christians are obligated to correct or warn. Paul wrote, “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? (1 Cor 5:12)

    I am in sin if I do not warn about AA.

    I am wondering if your “higher power” is Christ but maybe you attend church far less than AA? I am not saying this is so by any means, just wondering. Marci, AA has been the vehicle that has driven many through the gates of hell, for most are pointed away from Christ, told they can make up a god. (My words, AA would cast all of this in terms of a “higher power.”

    If you have time, could you explain to me your understanding as to how a person gets to heaven?

  12. Hello I just want to ask… Are you an alcoholic? Does Christ tell you to question everyone’s spirituality?

    I think not nor bash them,

    It is the HOLY SPIRITS job to convict
    It is GODS job to judge
    It is our job to LOVE!

    Do you not think you might be insulting people who were turned away by People who accepted Christ? Sorry to say but not everyone who proclaims Christ is a Christian.

    The bible also commands that we do not critize or judge our brothers and sisters for the way they worship The Lord, I love Jesus and I’m an alcoholic, it’s my job to be strong in my faith and not to turn others away by judging or condemning them, they will observe my actions and obedience, the rest is Gods job.

  13. You people are nuts.

  14. There is no doubt AA is a mission field–but here you are participating in this pagan religion, where any god is acceptable. You were voted their “leader”? Kind of confused about that. I have seen Christians try and find reasons to remain in AA, and sometimes the “reason” is that they say Christ is their higher power.

    You are in a religion that denies Christ.

    We need Christians who have not been affected by AA, who do not have the AA experience as an idol, who are willing to try and reach the AA people.

    I am not trying to be hard on you–but you are disobedient to the One you are proclaiming.

  15. Try proclaiming Christ in a meeting of AA, I do it all the time. Yes it is true that AA will never be a Christian meeting if there is not a witness for Jesus there. Somehow I think it’s easier to preach when people are yelling Amen’s and “Preach it brother!” then when people tell you things like, “Word to the wise, we don’t talk about Jesus here” – and this is after they voted me in as the leader (do you think I headed that warning😉

  16. -jon-

    There is no dispute, but there are those who choose to reject God’s very own, specific words. These disputers, those who come with only their reasoning while rejecting the truth…

    1Jo 5:12
    “He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.”

  17. what would the creator say about all this dispute

  18. Jhn 10:26
    “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.

  19. It’s creepy to read the demented Christian fervour here.

  20. Regarding statement by “Anonymous”

    After direct involvement and attendance at many of hundreds of AA meetings, let me be clear:
    There is [absolutely nothing] that The Church (the true body of Christ) wants nor could possibly use from AA. Very, very few of these stated so to speak “real people” -according to all statistics- cannot even keep themselves sober which is the only primary purpose and function for it’s existence.
    What kind of help is that?
    Implementation of typical word use: that is what is called a lie!

  21. church’s wish they had what AA does. real people helping each other.

  22. eruptionista,
    your comments are misguiding and not in line with the truth/facts.

    • More people stop drinking on their own without any 12 step help every year than those who choose AA.
    • One has a better chance of staying sober by taking a placebo than going to AA.
    Read: http://www.behaviortherapy.com/ResearchDiv/whatworks.aspx

    Sorry but [AA does not work] and to suggest to anyone to go AA to stay sober is simply reckless. I also should point out that not drinking has never been a boast for a true follower of Jesus, ever…
    “Let him who boasts, boast in The Lord!” 1Cr 1:31

  23. Hi John,
    I am not going to die a drunk Christian, and this is a standard AA comment which has harmed many. I am glad you are sober, although the AA success rate is very low. So…who is your God? Do you know Christ?

  24. If you want to die a drunk Christian, go ahead! AA doesn’t work? Do you want to put your fingers in the holes in my side? John Davies 14 years sober in AA

  25. Holy is the Lord. Thank you, Brian, I going to post this.

  26. Mr Mark,

    This, the Bible in a nutshell:
    No Jesus = No God / Know Jesus = Know God

    Let’s look at God’s direct words about this:

    1Jo 4:3
    and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist

    1Jo 2:23
    Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

    1Jo 5:12
    He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

    Jhn 14:6
    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.

    Mat 10:32-33
    “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. “But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

    2Jo 1:9-11
    Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

    Now, I would think that this is a bit embarrassing for those who profess to be a Christian and yet have any involvement towards this man made religion known as AA. You see, I have been to many dozens of different AA meetings throughout the greater northwest, all of the “big important” ones too, I have experienced 100s of meetings and for someone to suggest that the God of The Bible is present in these meeting is a huge bold lie.

    Jesus is not welcome in these AA meetings. Jesus is void in all of the AA teachings. Jesus has absolutely nothing to do with anything that goes on throughout AA but the Bible states clearly that without Jesus we cannot have any form of a relationship with God!

    All of your so to speak Biblical perspective is far off the base of truth, the truth of the teachings from The Bible. If you don’t believe this, read the scriptures above again. If you still don’t believe this then you may want to tell Jesus himself that He is wrong. Why? Because He is the one who taught these things…

  27. Mark,
    I know it is hard to accept, but AA is anti-Christian. And, if the AA Big Book is from the Bible, why does it contradict the Bibe? Mark, the AA Big Book incorporates the Emmet Fox New Thought heresy. I will be posting about this (again), I guess.

  28. I am a christian and an active member of AA. Firstly I understand that the approach provided doesn’t fit in with what YOU think is the way GOD acts. Secondly, the whole AA book is written from the Bible and the reason its a God of your understanding (Doesn’t actually say Higher Power in the steps, it says God) is so those people who are so broken, angry and desperate can have a beginning with the God of creation. Thirdly you are delving into the trinity and trying to say you understand it and how it all works. Basically from what I have seen you have taken all the teachings of Christ and perverted them to your own ends. See to the plank in your eye, not the spec in your brothers. What is the point of this thread? To discourage people from recovering from addiction? To further God’s agenda or your own? I think that everyone involved should pray about it and when you hear your King’s response it might surprise you. Then again I am just one voice who doesn’t really understand how his own world works and hasn’t the time or the patience to understand how yours works. So stop taking my Fathers name and using it to tout your own inadequacies.

  29. It’s a little more serious than that. There is one way to eternal salvation–and that is through Jesus Christ. Pretending otherwise or staying silent about the AA religion, which decoys many, is not going to happen.

  30. Many of us came to AA sick of being threatened with eternal damnation because we could not swallow a certain theology. Practitioners of Islam would say that proponents of Western style Christianity are the ones who are damned. Personally, I think it is arrogant to put limits on the Almighty that he might choose one and only one way to reveal himself to individuals. Worship and believe however you like, but don’t condemn those who do not march in lock step to your cadence.

  31. Oh yes!
    This “grace” is plentiful from God, and can be found, expressed through His Son:

    1Jo 5:11
    And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
    1Jo 5:12
    He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

    There may be a time given for each of us, a period of “grace” if you will, before God destroys those who reject Jesus.
    The Bible makes ample and clear with warnings regarding those who deny and reject Jesus as the only “way, truth and life…”

    Jud 1:4
    For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
    Jud 1:5
    Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that he Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

    God’s grace can turn to wrath at any time towards those who choose not to believe.
    I highly suggest: Turn to Jesus and stop playing a game with eternity and rolling the dice, for your time of grace may close on you unexpected exactly like it was for those who came out of the land of Egypt.

    In Jesus, may The Father guide and bless you through The Holy Spirit!

  32. Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” (John 14:6)

  33. There is but one God and he honors those who seek Him. Yes the way is narrow but the wisdom and strength of God is larger than our words can contain. His grace is also larger… Sure there are those in AA that reject God and create straw dolls that work for them day to day, but God rewards those who fervently seek Him.

  34. To directly address the last post…

    –“Interesting thread you have going here …”
    1) By your statements you’re only interested in discrediting credible people.

    –“and some great food for thought.”
    2) Actually these are non-informative opinions, not “food for thought”.

    –“I am not sure if the original writer of this blog has much experience in addictions”
    3) WHOOPS! Regarding the “original writer of this blog” you have just proved your ignorance, void of knowing anything about John. What a ridiculous blind stab, a statement void of knowledge.

    –“(is he a recovered or recovering alcoholic???).”
    4) A typical statement attempting to side step truth by divisiveness and non-relative statements.

    “I was quite surprised at a comment made between Dave and Brian”
    5) You need not be “surprised” regarding direct communication with purpose.

    –“about praying for Simion because he is “unsaved”.”
    6) Praying is what Christians do. We pray (talk with God directly) because we know that we have absolutely no power but can rely on our Father exclusively for wisdom, understanding and can be led directly by The Holy Spirit to carry out His will.

    –“Sounds like we are “playing God””
    7) This is a very poor assumption and the exact opposite is true. We are not so to speak “playing” nor are we “God”. Our true roles are only as servants of God, never God. Only the naïve would make such a divisive comment.

    –“when we walk around claiming who are and who are not children of God …”
    8) Another very bad guess. Simion conveyed directly to John that he was not a believer in Jesus. Also a previous post elsewhere from Simion shows this very clearly that he indeed is “unsaved”.

    –“There are many Christians in AA”
    9) The word “Many” is a misguiding word here, void of fact. We all know, including me from over a decade of direct involvement that a very, very, very few true Christians have any involvement with AA.

    –“who have found a solution”
    10) This simpleton AA jargon is pitiful. A solution to what?
    a) Stop drinking?
    According to research, all major reports claim that AA has a success rate lower than those who stop drinking on their own. It simply does not work.
    b) A way to come to God?
    According to The Bible this is impossible without Jesus and only through Jesus.

    –“and can bear witness to Christs saving work just by their actions …”
    11) The very first byproduct in one’s life regarding the salvation from “Christ” is that they are free from sin and will always boast about Jesus, and Jesus only in all things. This is not present in AA nor any 12 step program.

    — “they will know you are Christian by your love”
    12) Very nice quote! Very nice! And I always enjoy being reminded appreciate this very much.
    Love is referred to directly in Jesus’ own words over and over. Also there is much more to this. For followers of Jesus, each one of us may have a different tasks and gifts “callings” within the body of Christ. Here is stated one for us all, we are all called to acknowledge Jesus:
    Mat 10:32-36 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    –“, often these people are asked to be sponsors because others “want what they have” …
    13) Here I must boast about Jesus. Compared to Jesus and His gift of The Holy Spirit, there is absolutely nothing! and I truly mean nothing that any one in AA has or would I ever want.

    –“if they receive it … it is not of their own doing, or their sponsors doing – but only through Grace”
    14) Not much grace going around AA halls when they trample on The Son of God and discard His teaching. To put the Bible in a nutshell:
    No Jesus = No God – Know Jesus = Know God
    Jhn 14:6-7 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

    –“(and guess what? they are the ones who know it – heart, soul and mind … … )”
    14) Do they know the truth, have they been saved by the grace of God through Jesus? What exactly do they know? What worthwhile confidence can they possibly have without Jesus?

    –“I thank God for regular Sunday worship with the Communion of Saints and I thank Him for fellowship in AA. As well as my husband and 7 children”
    15) I pray that the power of God fills you and your family with His power and love to overflowing! I pray that you would go forward and proclaim the “Good News” about our Savior Jesus! I pray this will be your testimony that Jesus is everything that you need and nothing else!

    –“I know !!! Eileen (alcohol free since Nov 29, 2010)”
    16) I also pray that you may not put any confidence in your flesh. Even though I choose not to drink also, “alcohol free” according to Jesus is not a goal nor boast whatsoever.

    1Cr 1:31
    so that, just as it is written, “LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.”

    May we always keep in step and be hand in hand with The Lord and never any man-made steps.


  35. Interesting thread you have going here … and some great food for thought. I am not sure if the original writer of this blog has much experience in addictions (is he a recovered or recovering alcoholic???). I was quite surprised at a comment made between Dave and Brian about praying for Simion because he is “unsaved”. Sounds like we are “playing God” when we walk around claiming who are and who are not children of God … There are many Christians in AA who have found a solution and can bear witness to Christs saving work just by their actions … “they will know you are Christian by your love”, often these people are asked to be sponsors because others “want what they have” … if they receive it … it is not of their own doing, or their sponsors doing – but only through Grace (and guess what? they are the ones who know it – heart, soul and mind …:-) … )
    I thank God for regular Sunday worship with the Communion of Saints and I thank Him for fellowship in AA. As well as my husband and 7 children – I know !!! Eileen (alcohol free since Nov 29, 2010)

  36. Hey John, regarding your accurate and reliable (original text) translation question:
    I prefer the NASB along with the ESV. The NASB is simply the undisputed most accurate word for word translation but also there is much more to the accuracy and reliability of the NASB regarding the actual text used as well as a critical understanding and implementation of historical-grammatical-literary and cultural contexts. When using any translation, whether the NIV, KJV, NASB, you name it, it is always a good idea and can be of great value to take a look at the original Greek text towards a better understanding of any scripture!


  37. He is our King! Brian, what do you consider the most accurate and reliable translation?

  38. Bravo and thank you John.
    I am with you – Knees to the floor and heart and mind to God –
    Glory! Thanks be to God for His abounding Grace, Mercy and love for us all exspressed through Jesus!


  39. Hey Brian,
    Lots of damage from the 12 Steps. The guy who commented, Simion, is unsaved, so pray for him. Thank you for explaining about the NIV translation of Luke 17:21.

  40. Ever notice that false teacher’s naturally flow out of the recovery movement? Be advised…

    There is only the one originating source regarding direct reference to: “The Kingdom of God”; this is found throughout The Bible.
    In The Bible, “The Kingdom of God” is never (in any way) referred to as being “inside you” One translation for Luk 17:21 states: “the kingdom of God is within you” but this NIV translation discards the original text and is refuted by -all- serious translations as can be easily understood:

    What Jesus actually states regarding this Kingdom is seen below:

    Jhn 3:3
    Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

    Clearly, if one is not “born again” as Jesus states, one will not have anything to do with this Kingdom.
    Attempting to put Jesus and “His Body (The Church)“ in a box such as this “simion” and distort His Word shows a lack of understanding and sound judgment; a typical shallow and nearsighted view of who Jesus is, what He did and does, clearly void of the full counsel of God.

    For all true worshipers of The Lord God Almighty, we are told to abide in Jesus exclusively, implementing these written commands with absolute promises:
    2Cr 6:17-18
    “Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord. “and do not touch what is unclean; And I will welcome you. “And I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to Me,” Says the Lord Almighty.

    Everything that comes from the mouth of this Bill Wilson, a self-proclaimed “spiritual” guide is an antithesis; the absolute opposite of what a Christian should consider as guidance. Make up any justification or even an excuse, the fact is this 12 step teaching and all supporting 12 step literature is as unclean as anything can possibly be.

    The largest and eternally lethal lie taught in the world is that one can have a close relationship with God outside of Jesus. AA promotes this lie boldly through the use of the 12 steps while boasting freedom when in fact the exact opposites are true.

    All of the teaching that comes from these false teachers/blind guides Bill Wilson and Robert Smith are very spiritual indeed; their teachings are directly inspired by channeling spiritual entities known as demons, not The Holy Spirit of The Lord Almighty.

    Glory to God in the highest!
    Every single one our spiritual needs now, including an eternal life with God are gifts that are given by The Lord Jesus!

    With the love of The Lord,

  41. We know A.A. is not from Christ from the Scriptures. (Isaiah 42:8, Galatians 1:6-9, 2 Corinthians 6:14-17) We know from A.A.’s history that it is a mix of many different spiritual elements rather than a gift from Christ.

    And I will continue to warn the Body of Christ.

  42. The kingdom of God is inside you. Not in buildings made of wood and stone. Pick up a piece of wood and you will find me. Turn over a rock or stone and I am there. Jesus Christ.

    When you know to thine own self be true , as above, you know the truth. When the voice who guides you is the from the kingdom inside your heart, you know its the voice of the eternal father. There is only one true message. Love. Compassion. Im sorry you seem to harbour such hatred inside you for an organisation that has saved millions of people from dying from a disease that is rarely understood. How do you know that God himself did not provide this place to go for people who were unable to find relief from anywhere else because no one else understood them. God is inside us, not in churches. People are in churches, people who preach in the name of God. Thats called “false gods”.

    One thing I know is true for all mankind. We dont know much at all. Its wise to focus on opening our minds and allowing people who are happy to be so ….let me leave you with a lovely liitle quote. Religion is for ppl who do not want to go to hell. Sprituality is for those who have already been there.

    We are not God. Maybe start there. I hope you find peace and allow people the dignity to be where they are at. Insisting you are right and everyone else is wrong is the beginning of war. I hope you find peace for the one that appears to be raging inside you.


  43. Thank you.

  44. These statements are both old and lies:
    “The foundation of A.A. was the Oxford Group and they absolutly preached Christ as Lord and Savior….”

    1) This AA “foundation” was simply a couple of drunks who among other things chose to seek advice from unclean spirits through channeling along with incorporating teachings from others such as Jung who did the very same.
    Jesus followers know that this demonic channeling activity is as an abomination, an activity in the Old Testament according to God’s law one was immediately killed for doing. To follow such teaching would be the most unwise thing a true Christian could possibly do.
    2) The primary message of the then known Oxford Group was nothing more than imposing a very few Bible verses extremely misapplied and interpreted out of context. This Oxford Group teaching is a critical and lethal misdirection regarding the full counsel of God.

    Choosing to follow such teaching as stated in AA is clearly blind and reckless for a believer in the real Jesus. The anointing and power of The Holy Spirit given as a gift from God is all sufficient for any follower of Christ to live a Godly life.

    With the love from The Lord,

  45. You have been reading too much of Dick B.’s erroneous work. I guess I am going to have to write about this, because the Oxford Group really didn’t care what you you believed in—kind of like A.A. …

    As for your “I couldn’t get help in church, only in AA” you are spouting the party line, something used with great success to keep AA people, Christians and nonbelievers alike, from seeking help through the Body of Christ.


    Here is some info on the Oxford Group: http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-Ironside.html

  46. I am A born Again Christian and Member of A.A. The foundation of A.A. was the Oxford Group and they absolutly preached Christ as Lord and Savior….Yes over the years the original message of A.A. has been changed/watered down and Christ is not preached in public meetings. However, many come to know Christ as a result of going to meetings and seeking God…I am one of them…A.A. does not “mask its self as Religious” as stated in the above blog…A.A. is for desperate sick alchoholics who are dying from alchoholism. It is a safe place to come and get help where the alchoholic is not judged or condemmend. It is important that A.A. members who are also Christian remain in A.A. to be a witness for Christ when possible and not pull-out and move on as said above…what better harvest field could there be????

    I left A.A. for 3 years and was very active in my church and my relationship with Christ…My church family did not and cannot understand the disease of alchohilism…I left A.A. because of the message I recieved from the church…the same message you are preaching on this site…I eventually got drunk and went back to active addiction, then followed prison etc I suffered from addiction for another 8 years all the while trying to recover in church.I almost died several times..

    it was when i returned to A.A. that I was able to get and stay clean and sober…Yes Jesus is my Lord and savior..not a door knob or some other absud thing that you state above..No wonder people in A.A. are reluctant towards the church and so called Christians when they hear the kind of message on this site from the Church…Remember…It is the Goodness of God that brings Men to repentance…people respond to Love not the fear of Hell….not arguments over scripture…..jesus is Love….God is Love!!!……1 Cor:13

    In Christ,

  47. Thanks for reading the article. I respect how some AA members will do anything to help another get sober or stay sober. My concern is that this lifetime is relatively short, and eternity never ends. Those who do not repent and believe on the Lord Jesus face eternal damnation. I do not say this with my finger pointed accusingly at AA members, yourself included, but I say it because it is the Truth. I pray this does not happen–but it will happen, to all who reject Jesus Christ.

    Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” (John 14:6)

    We are sinners by nature and by our actions. Christ took our punishment for sin on the cross, sent by the Father. The Bible tells us, “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day, according to the Scriptures, and that He appeared to Cephas, and then to the twelve.” (1 Corinthians 15:3-5)

    So many of the people in AA are severe danger, and no one warns them, no one tells them…

  48. i am a member of a 12 step fellowship and we do believe
    in god not some twisted higher power eveyone is describing people that are talking about how to work the twisted steps dont even know how to work the steps or have never even studied the book the majority of people in meeting dont read the book

  49. I feel hurt deeply for those people who take hurting people away from the only”book of truth” that wil ever get true freedom and healing through is through the true Word of God and that is the Holy Bible. The thing is I know where those 12 steps orginate from and ist from spiritualism. How can spirtualism be in a christian church? How do they justify this? How can people who are supposelfy christian not take those twisted 12 steps and test it through scripture? A true bible believing Christian knows false doctrine when they see or hear it. Why are churchs allowing this to come into the church? I would love still to find a bible based church without any 12 step anything, I am still searching for such a church. What wil happen to these pastors and elders in the church when Christ returns on trying to lead people away from the bible and deceiving and pulling believers away from Gods Word?
    People dont do as the bible says because that would mean that they would have to get out of self. I speak from experince. People are addicted to there story of woes is me and what about me and all my difficults and my issues. Rewrite your stroy and read and study the Word until it becomes who you are and to rid yourself of you. Faith is the word of God. That is why i know now that is very important for me to companionship with people who are walking in the Lord. Doing the work the studying really immersed in the word. I myself taking a christian approach to habitual sinning . on setting captives free. its all based on the teaching in the bible. chandeged beliefs is another course and these are all free. But the bottom line is you have to want to be free more than you want to be stuck in all you own issues. No program 12 steps will ever ever ever deliver you. You will remain in bondage and suffer. Because it is not a formula or a method. It is sin and when youtruly confess then repent and guess what no dwelling and living and giving CPR to a past you cannot do anything about it.
    Believe me the enemy would be more than happy to keep you in endless rehasing and anything to keep you away from the healing that only comes through our Jesus Christ.
    Do yourself a favor and check out what ever celebrate recovery or 12 step against the true word of God in scripture and see for yourself. dont be deceievd. God wants you to know His whole truth and that is in “living” in His Word and that will be the most incredible peace you have ever experinced in your life. Dont allow anyone to lead you away from the Holy Living Bible
    God bless you all
    In His Light

  50. What a good, honest question–and here is my short version answer. Our time on earth is very short; eternity is forever, pardon the cliche. Hell is full of people who have rejected Jesus Christ. He alone is our Salvation.

    Jesus saith unto Him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6)

    Making up a higher power is eternally perilous. Many of the meetings I have attended have served to point people away from Christ. “Church” meaning Christianity is frequently denigrated.

    I would never deny a person’s sobriety, whether from A.A. or anywhere else, yet A.A. people frequently refer to those sober by other means as “dry drunks.” Because A.A. is religious in nature–as Christians see those in other religions as unsaved, many A.A. people see those sober by other means as not really sober. It is an interesting parallel in a Bizarro Superman sort of way.

    A.A. is not all that effective, but is portrayed as such. I realize you have thoughts, responses to all this. I am going to re-post something in light of all this. Thanks for your question.

  51. Why do you have such a [deleted] for AA? It does NOTHING to deny your right to believe in YOUR god in YOUR way. .

  52. Thank you for taking the time to comment on this. Unfortunately, A.A. is allied with many things, backed by various government institutions (courts etc.), even though it has been ruled religious by the U.S. Supreme Court. The higher power concept has spread throughout the culture, and many are the A.A. members who do all they can to discourage people from Biblical Christianity. this I know from my own past A.A. attendance. 2 Corinthians 6:14-17 tells us we are not to spiritually participate in non-Christian spirituality, and that is certainly what A.A. is.

  53. May I remind you of the part of the AA preamble which states “A.A. is not allied with any sect, denomination, politics, organization or institution; does not wish to engage in any controversy, neither endorses nor opposes any causes. Our primary purpose is to stay sober and
    help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety.”?
    As stated, for good reason, AA is not a religious program but instead is a program based on spiritual principles.
    You start this site with “…there was nothing left but for us to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at our feet. We have found much of heaven and we have been rocketed into a fourth dimension of existence of which we had not even dreamed.” a quote from the Big Book. Do you see the word Christ mentioned? I don’t.
    People like you scare me. I have seen newcomers bolt from AA when people like you said there was but one way and that way is Christ. I pray to my higher power for each and every one of those newcomers that they return to AA to get the REAL truth about the spiritual, NOT RELIGIOUS truth about AA. Your belief in Christ has no place in the program or the message of AA other than to your OWN experience. Remember that you speak only for yourself and that is your choice.Leave other’s choices to them regarding their own spirituality as intended by our founders.
    You take license here to take quotes from the Bible to twist your stance. How about this one for you to ponder when it comes to quotes from the Bible? The Bible verse “Judge not lest ye be judged” came from the King James Version of the Bible, and is quoted from The Book of Matthew, chapter 7 verse 1. It came from Jesus’ teaching in the New Testament, when he was giving his followers practical advice for how they should live their lives. Although some may take this to mean that we should never judge others for anything, what Jesus was really saying was that we should not judge others unfairly. If we judge others while failing to see our own shortcomings, we are being hypocritical. (I think that basically says it all and is something you should ponder, consider and pray about for yourself and for the newcomer.)
    Happily sober and eternally grateful to my higher power for both AA and my sobriety since 2/19/2003! When it comes to the preamble I stick to our primary purpose which is “to stay sober and help other alcholics achieve sobriety.”
    I pray you consider this reply as it is intended and how it is motivated: honest, pure, unselfish and loving.

  54. I know little, but I know that this is hurting God’s people. Can you read this? http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-times/article.php?articleid=6717

  55. I go to church and AA. I have found a spiritual path that I have been looking for all my life. I was raised in church. At 21, I became addicted to drugs and alcohol and 11 years later I found something that works. If something helps people to have a better life and teaches a design for living that helps others to be better people why take time to put that down? Why not focus on the good in your life? Why is it that some people want to make everyone else believe the way they do? Are you so conceited to actually believe you have this whole thing figured out?

  56. Shawn,
    I completely understand what you are saying. I am glad you are sober. I too lost everything–to the point of living on the street in rags. Christ is my Salvation and my Deliverer. I am not saying that people who do not know Christ cannot get sober–that is one of the things I am concerned about. Because people go to AA, and although most do not get sober, there are those who make up a god, stop drinking, and go on with their lives.

    Yet Christ Himself says, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” (John 14:6)

    No one, Shawn. A generic higher power will not do it. A self-designed “god” will not do it. I write these articles because the Holy God has allowed me to see the Truth, and allows me to warn others. Alcoholics Anonymous has been ruled as religious by the U.S. Supreme Court. It can be defined as such theologically, sociologically or even by a simple dictionary definition.

    I have been to the meetings. What is love Shawn? Is it staying silent while people perish?

  57. lol….why on Gods green earth would someone even make up a site such as this? Listen, I struggled with alcoholism from the age of 15-32 when after many geographical cures I wonder thru the doors of AA in Lawton, Oklahoma to find a man who I asked,”why, do you care so much?” He said,”his God wouldn’t have it any other way!” Isn’t that what God wants with us a personal relationship…thats all AA teaches…oh and love and tolerance as well. See we let people come in and find whatever they want to find, hoping in all honesty that they find a personal relationship with God but unlike Churches, we dont chastice them for whatever they find hoping they stick around til a huge miracle occurs….People like you should be banned from technology, hey I tell you what..why I dont give you my parents phone number, the parents who searched for me for 4 years, the mother who cried herself to sleep when my teaching/coaching goals had been stripped from me cause I gave it all away to active alcoholism…why dont you call them and tell them AA doesnt work….while your at it…why dont you call my prinicpal and all the children/families I am allowed to serve today (the food I put in backpacks for kids/the clothes I give them) and tell them AA doesnt work either…AA didn’t work for me for many years cause you know why….I wasn’t ready to do anything differently. I wasn’t willing to take any suggestions, I wasn’t willing to change anything…then I realized I had a blackness in my soul and I realized I was missing God….guess who made me realize this a man…a man that just so happened to love God…you know what I dont even know why I am responding to this….I guess its because of people like you that this world stays so messed up…always judging…people,places and instituitions…let God be the Judge and why dont you just spread his kindness/love and let others stand before God

  58. Thanks Sue. It is a strand in rising false church.

  59. Hi there John,
    This all amazes me. I have family that have been in AA and Alanon. The pagan stuff is a shocker too. Thanks for revealing the truth.

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